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Warren system to check mortgage advice historically

Bill Warren Compliance is offering a retrospective mortgage sourcing system that allows firms to check that the most appropriate product and lender were recommended on past mortgage business.

The service, delivered in partnership with Home Buyer System, is designed for compliance checking, for example, where a firm needs to defend itself against a complaint or undertake a past business review.

Managing director Bill Warren says: “The service will provide 100 per cent accuracy with historic data. It is based on Def- aqto data, which is what the FSA uses for its comparison tables. This will be of considerable value to firms who have been asked by the FSA to undertake a past business review or just want reassurance that their mortgage business is compliant. The joy of this service is its accuracy and simplicity, saving money and time for firms.”

John Charcol senior technical manager Ray Boulger says: “For smaller firms that do not produce regular best-buy tables, this concept could be a very useful one.

“Its usefulness will depend on the level of detail you can input about clients’ specific needs and whether a list of suitable products is presented rather than a single choice.”


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There are 22 comments at the moment, we would love to hear your opinion too.

  1. Another individual trying to make money from potential mis-selling. Ultimately, his idea is flawed from the outset, as mortgages are not recommended solely on rate.

    Good Luck – from trying to make misery out of good honest brokers. The bad ones went a long time ago.

  2. As someone who often has to look at past advice in expert witness cases such a system will be very useful. Good luck with it Bill.

    Nick Baxter (Chartered Marketer DipM DipMan (Open) MCIM MAE FPC CeMAP MAQ CeRGI CeRCC CeARL AdvCeMAP CeRCH CeCM)

    Partner – Baxters Business Consultants – Training, Marketing and Expert witness services to the residential mortgage industry –
    Director – Mortgage Promotions – A Mortgage Club for directly authorised brokers –
    Non Executive Director – Rockstead – The Mortgage Audit Consultants –

  3. Awkward list of gongs there Nick. Are you really so insecure that you need to display them like this?
    I, like most professionals keep a good file with the evidence of selection clear. So like the last anon poster I agree that it is the case of yet another person trying to make money on the back of misery. This concept is seriously flawed.

  4. People seem to think that a computer system is the be all and end all of life. Whilst you can use say moneyfacts or such websites for sourcing, it is human interaction that is important.

    Furthermore, as the previous individual stated mortgages are not solely rate driven.

    Remember the lenders that came into the market in the 80s (Mortage Corporation Etc) promising to be cheaper at all times and then they caught everyone out being more expensive.

    The human intereaction is more important than the computer sourcing and most advisors worth their salt know where to go anyway.

  5. I always tell my clients to print out the comparison from their sourcing software, write on it why they have chosen the product recommended and keep it on file.

    Unless you have lost the file that should be sufficient.

  6. So the Ambulance chasers have now taken on a different stance, this time software. When will this farce end.

    Anyway Nick thought you left the industry sometime ago, but I see from your web site you have managed to take credit for many of the past schemes that bought such failure to an industry, and of course not even as highly qualifiied as many IFA’s.

    Will the last Mortgage Adviser to leave the business please turn the light off. The FSA have got their own way now, the banks control the market place.

  7. Seems a sensible product (Nick Pearson, art “o” level (failed)

  8. Paddling Enthusiast 6th January 2010 at 4:26 pm

    I don’t really see that you’re qualified to comment Nick, my old mucker.

    Paddling Enthusiast (25m badge, personal survival level one)

  9. The Financial Services Authority (FSA) confirms that any retrospective redefinition of regulatory requirements is out of the question and that the rules and standards enforced will be those in place at the time of the sale and not some retrospective reconstruction. The FSA concludes that with regard to any complaint they will not act with hindsight or invert the burden of proof, which would otherwise apply.


  10. As much as we do not like having advice challenged with the benefit of hindsight this facility may prove useful and nip a complaint in the bud that might otherwise have been difficult to defend.The likes of Bill Warren only exist because of the compliance regime we face. I actually think he is on our side and rightly earns a living from offering support when we are in the lions den. Provided you havent sold self cert mortgages where seviceability was in question or sub prime to prime borrowers then there shouldn’t be too much to worry about

  11. Actually I thought Nick must have fallen asleep on his keyboard !!!

  12. If I am understanding this correctly, this is to protect the good firms who will have done their jobs properly and completed research using a sourcing system such as mortgage brain and trigold and kept the results after using filters to source the products. Then once the products are there that suit the advisor will have recommended a rate, with a lender for such reasons as free val, low or no arr fee etc. Then why would they want to have this system when they already hold the the research details on file as I do. The only advisors who it would be useful to would be the ones who did not research and generally recommended the scheme paying the highest proc fee. So using this would incriminate them further! I do not know much about the guy who has set this up, although maybe with the lack of easy money from the drying up of mortgages, he as gone the route of were theres blame theres a claim. Depending on what happens post RDR, I may also go into this as I am sure I could find some one who could have been £1 per month better off on another rate and get them loads of compo with a big slice for me! Sod the IFA.

    Regards wayne Millen (once came second in a McDonalds colouring competition)

  13. All depends on how much information is available about the products that the system brings up. As one commentator has already pointed out, it isn’t just a case of bringing up a list of lenders and going for the lowest rate. There is far more involved including what the client(s) goals and requirements are, for example, how important such things as portability, ability to make penalty free overpayments, add fees, etc. etc. etc. are to the client(s). Total cost over the period of the scheme should be taken into account so the system would have to be able to perform this function. Income comes into it too, for example, sourcing systems will source according to the highest income multiple that lenders will offer, but when it comes down to it, these may not be available for individual clients if their income doesn’t fit on the lower levels. Other factors such as, for example, length of employment / self-employment aren’t always accurately taken into account by sourcing systems and, it’s well known that sourcing systems can be inaccurate and display incorrect information, withdrawn schemes etc. So, whilst it might be a helpful system, I would want to check out just how reliable and robust it is before I would consider using it. That apart, copies of the original research and file notes should be on file anyway – unless it has been lost or damaged – and that would be the only situation in which I can see this system having any use.

  14. V.Very Esq. CeMap CeeMap CeeeMap Bsc(Brain surgery) GCSE, CSE, ABC, XYZ. Chief WH (Wip Holder) PHDD. DippyDip.Sc. 10yd swimming cert and Also very good looking according to my mum! I guess I am very very qualified!

    And yes…not a bad idea Bill.

  15. Nick, do you think a single qualification might be a good idea? The letters after your name are longer than your post.

  16. It is obvious that retrospective assessment will lead some opportunists to claim they “knew” base rate would drop to 0.5% and that they should have been sold a tracker with hindsight, or am I just a cynic. The best defense is a thorough fact find, attitude to risk, clear evidence of affordability, and evidence of reseach being on the file. Since no one in the world forecast the lending climate freezing over, those locked in higher fixed rates that are the most likely to complain. How far back does he intend to go?

  17. Human traits, don’t you just love them…….As soon as any industry/sector/profession hits a downturn/problems/examination there will always be those who feel they can profit from others. Likewise disappointingly there will always be those who feel they have to endorse others and in turn bolster their own (perceived standing) as industry experts.

    Truth of matter is that FSA data wasn’t always accurate, even months after M day errors on simple rate and product criteria was being displayed. Both lenders and the major sourcing system providers were in regular communication with the FSA pointing this out. So Bill, do you really want to stake you colours to the mast of accurate data with that track record? As an industry expert I’d have known this!

    And you (Bill) will of course know that the responsibility for accuracy of data still rests with the adviser not the sourcing system, and as was eloquently put earlier, rate isn’t the only factor when recommending a product…….we don’t have to be “Compliance experts” to know the requirements of MCOB

    And talking of records….only those insecure would want to record a list of supposed qualifications as a footer to their emails. So Nick, I’d keep a lower profile:- You “qualifications”…..Impressive, no, are they easily recognisable likewise no. Could I make up appropriate (more likely inappropriate) descriptions to your far too long list, yes. It’s a shame the terms of this comment page would invalidate an illustration of my active imagination!!!

  18. I always thought as a mortgage intermediary that we were giving professional, personal advice & guidance that wasn’t available in banks. I never imagined when I left banking to offer a real service to the public that my industry would be vilified in such a way.

    P.s You don’t want to play ‘achievement top trumps’ with me, I was a CUB & a SCOUT
    I got all my badges!!!!

  19. Rob Cunningham-Snell 6th January 2010 at 10:55 pm

    What an utter farce and totally undermining of the vast majority of us who provide an excellent service for our clients for which they are extremely grateful. Regulation has completely lost the plot and still, it seems, allows the ‘extremists’ in the financial services and mortgage market to get away with blue murder! Not only the ‘terrorists’ themselves but also the ignorant idiots who openly provide their support some even displaying the proof that passing untold numbers of examinations holds absolutely no water whatsoever. (Not, of course, those who have worked hard to prove their worth academically and then to encourage those providing different levels of advice according to their ability, to be as professional as possible and always look to those who are more able, for help and additional services.) My god, I hope someone with some real nouse gets hold of this industry and gives it a real good shaking and SOMETIME VERY SOON! It is too late for me but I really do hope the younger generation are given an opportunity to come into the world of financial services with the knowledge that they can proceed with confidence, knowing they can provide the services required by those who need it, professionally and with care, with minimal regulatory interruption so the majority of their time is spent giving the advice, backed by an authority which has to answer for its actions and regulation which are carefully thought out for the benefit of all involved and not just for the consumer. Also with a sensible time limit on the liability of the adviser, so that the consumer is obliged to take some responsibility for his or her actions and decisions and all advisers can retire with a certain peace of mind as any other responsible professional currently has the privilege and right to experience. Criminal negligence, of course, is another matter. Common sense should always prevail and cowboys should be prosecuted!

  20. I was under the impression that we had enough hoops to jump through ,to do and justify the business we write when we joined the circus of financial services.Has Nick ever sat in front of a client to establish needs ,given advice or written a suitability letter .I think not sad b—— he doesn’t have time he too busy studying sitting exams and being an ex-spert ( definition has been ??????) university of life plus formal exams too many to mention .bye

  21. Nice one lads, ABC, CDE, FGH, IJK, LMNOP Cert

  22. Searching for the best mortgage using the same critieria on different mortgage sourcing systems will produce different results so it is difficult to see how using yet a different system many years after the event is likely to prove or disprove that the best mortgage has been recommended.
    Also like others have said the various systems do not fully reflect the lenders criteria and it is rarely the case of recomending the lender at the top of the table.
    Intentions may be good but I think the system us flawed.

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