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CII in staff redundancy talks

The Chartered Insurance Institute is holding consultation talks with staff as it forecasts a drop in revenues for next year.

Around a dozen out of the CII’s 200 staff are at risk of redundancy, including management. Staff have entered into consultation with the consultation period ending in the next few weeks.

A spokesman for the CII says: “Against a background of continuing global financial turmoil and having taken into account the approach of the RDR deadline the CII has forecast a reduction in revenue for 2013. As a not-for-profit chartered body we seek to balance revenue with costs on an annual basis and aim to avoid reporting a loss.

“In anticipation of lower revenues next year we have reduced our 2013 budget accordingly and this has required that we review staff costs. A number of roles have been identified as being at risk.”


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There are 26 comments at the moment, we would love to hear your opinion too.

  1. I am assuning the directors will be giving up their bonuses too. I bet not…

    The CII has been on the RDR gravy train for a good few years and it almost feels like they are surprised by a downturn?!

    Surely it’s time for the fat cats at the top of the organisation to go – or at least the two really fat ones.

  2. Anyone know where to find the annual accounts for this ‘not for profit’ organisation?

    Would love to find out how much they award themselves but can’t seem to find anything on their website.

    Transparency doesnt apply to the CII it would seem.

  3. Fewer Advisers = Fewer Provider Staff = Fewer CII Staff.

    I thought about adding “Fewer FSA/FCA Staff” but that would just be silly wouldn’t it.

  4. I have a cunning plan for all of them to keep their jobs
    Press the FSA for all advisers to be level six qualified immediately
    There – problem solved

  5. Roman Duzinkewycz 5th November 2012 at 11:06 am

    Feel sorry if people will lose their jobs – I wouldn’t wish it on any body but, it appears this money tree will not take any more shaking as they have ‘not profited’ have they.
    Been getting away with it for years – like most of the ‘hierarchy’ in this industry.

  6. We have seen our revenues increase during this time but those revenues are reinvested back into meeting the needs of our members – they certainly aren’t distributed to the Directors. For the record staff renumeration at the CII is overseen by a renumeration committee made up of independent market practitioners – your peers.

    Our approach to funding has, amongst other things, allowed us to produce a suite of new online exam units that advisers can sit on any working day, launch an alternative assessment for those that struggle with the exam room environment, offer a free gapfill tool and provide free gapfill CPD to members.

    For those that have asked, copies of the CII Annual Review are available here:

    David Ross

  7. Well said David, hope the organisation gets through this difficult time.

  8. @ David Ross

    Thanks David but I’ve read the annual review you linked already. It dedicated half a page out of 22 to its financial summary. Nowhere does it mention remuneration levels, at least to the people at the top. For an organisation with income over £38m, this is wholly inadequate.

    Do you not feel members have a right to more information rather than hiding behind a comment about a remuneration committee?

    What do the CII have to hide?

  9. David Ross – Whilst the link you have posted is interesting can you point us to / tell us the salary packages of the directors of the CII, which i think is what has been requested.


  10. The salaries that are paid to staff at the CII are subject to the governance processes outlined above. This is the approach that our members have chosen to adopt, namely not to publish details of individuals salaries. I am not in a position to change this.

    David Ross

  11. David Ross – Why would the members of decided that they were not to be published. Whats the problem of telling the members the salaries of senior positions, most institutions do it. Was it decided by all members on a specific vote on that specific issue or as part of a series of amendments to policies. Also just so we know what year was that decided ? and how is it changed ?

  12. To the best of my knowlege individuals salary information has never been published (and we are 100 years old). The processes previously outlined were developed by members and satisfy our legal requirements and outside of this blog appear never to have been an issue.

    I accept that this may not be the answer you were hoping for but it is the process we follow and not one I am in a position to change.

    David Ross

  13. There’s a fair little suspicion that all is not very transparent at the cii. A casing point was the request to know how many advisers were passing the R0 exams first time? What was published by the cii was the number of advisers who eventually passed the individual units in total. Something completely different indeed, because this didn’t show how many attempts it was taking per module. What is they say about statistics and damn lies? I also agree with Rich above, if I was a member of the cii I certainly would want to know how much the senior individuals in a ‘not for profit’ organisation actually earn and if this was disproportionate to the going rate for similar bodies. Until those figures are actually published it leaves the cii open to the idea something is being concealed.

  14. Norman Dalgleish 5th November 2012 at 4:21 pm

    As usual, David Ross sticks his head above the parapet to provide some helpful comment and all he gets is abuse.

    If you really want to know what the CII directors get paid then put some effort in to asking the CII, rather than just posting a 10 second comment on a news article. If the CII is set up that this information is not published then, as a member (I presume everyone asking is) you can try to change the set up of the organisation.

    Besides that, I don’t understand where the perceived “right” to know everyone’s salary has appeared from in recent years, though I admit I seem to be in a minority on this!

  15. Norman

    1. my comments take more than 10 seconds.
    2. we’re only asking questions to someone who has posted a comment and signs off as a CII employee. Why should we not ask questions in a polite manner. He can always decline to answer.

    We all like to know these things as recent history has shown that the issue has gone un monitored for many years and in many cases things are not what they should be.

  16. Totally agree with the non-staff comments, what is being said is it is nrmal for directors salaries to be disclosed and if this is not part of the ‘constitution’ then it should be.
    Of course we would not expect all staff salaries to be disclosed.
    Of course there is also the fantastic retirement benefits scheme for the directors too, or at least ‘real’ directors on the fabulous old scheme.
    If the facts were known there would be a change in the way the CII was managed, voting for this change would be an impossible task, publishing the facts would force a change.

  17. Norman Dalgleish | 5 Nov 2012 4:21 pm

    If you think was has been posted here is abuse you must live a very sheltered life. If someone from the CII wants to use this forum to post their comments I would suggest the rest of us have exactly the same right to post ours as well. Seriously, what have the CII to hide in that they are a ‘not for profit organisation’ yet the ‘members’ (are you one?) don’t want or need to know what remuneration is being taken by those at the top.
    As I pointed out in my last post a simple request to know how many times advisers were taking to pass R0 modules was answered in such a way it led to suspicion straight away about the difficulty of some of these exams in the early days.
    As for Davis Ross sticking his head up above the parapet I’m sure he’s a big boy and can deal with a few posts querying his answers. As for asking for information from the CII, read above.

  18. Christopher Lean 6th November 2012 at 9:07 am

    One way the CII could raise more revenue would be to invoice the large numbers of offshore financial salesmen that use CII titles without being members of the CII.

    Just look at the number out there using FPC (they still think this is some sort of official professional title) and CII ( Award). Check the CII register and there is no trace of them.

    To use a title, we all have to pay an annual fee and then we have to adhere to a code of conduct and verifiable CPD. These offshore guys don’t!

  19. Now, I’m not setting out to be contrary, but I would note that the accounts for the CII’s Education & Training Trust state that “The consolidated financial statements of The Chartered Insurance Institute can be obtained from the Secretary…”

    So, if the only thing that’s being made available is the annual review that Mr Ross kindly signposted, this does seem to be a bit of a misleading statement. I’m hopeful that Mr Ross is still monitoring this and can shed some light on the trustees’ belief that some more detailed figures are within the public domain.

  20. “I’m hopeful that Mr Ross is still monitoring this and can shed some light on the trustees’ belief that some more detailed figures are within the public domain”

    I wouldn’t hold my breath on that one because as I’ve said previously there is a lack of transparency that is pretty obvious to anyone taking even a passing interest in the workings of the CII. The members didn’t want/ask for it…

  21. Dr Peter Williams 6th November 2012 at 6:41 pm

    I continue to be amazed by the ‘anti’ CII comments that often appear and I feel sorry for David Ross who frequently tries to be helpful and is then ‘shot down’. For the record, until September I was a member of the CII representative Council. The Council is made up of elected members from local institutes and committee chairpersons etc. The Council and Board decide the strategy and policy which the secretariat then carry-out. In other words the CII is controlled by members.
    I say the above to remind readers that the CII is a member owned and controlled organisation and ALL members have access to the consolidated accounts of the CII Group. They are available on the website – all 17 pages of them – I know because I have just checked. So if you are a member and want to read them, just search the site – they are there. However at 17 pages they will not answer ever potential question – but members can raise questions through their Council represenatives – that’s how democracies work.
    So, please stop having a go at David and the CII and have a little more respect for the staff who are now facing redundancy and reflect on where the market would be had the CII not been there to help their members (and non members) meet the FSA’s Level 4 requirements.
    Dr Peter Williams, Chartered Financial Planner

  22. Thank you Peter. I don’t know you but I do know the good work you do for the industry.
    I really don’t believe anyone is shooting David Ross down and all I would sincerely hope wish all the good staff at the CII that are facing redundancy all the best with their future plans.
    I think the point still stands, being why don;t the salaries for the top management of the CII have their salaries published? If the accounts that are available to members show this, then great, enough said. But I doubt they do. Me, I cannot do this as I am no longer a member of the CII as I no longer have the need to ‘rent’ a designation from them but some of my colleagues still do so I shall obtain a copy from them.
    This is all simple stuff and aimed at the fact that the CII are shedding good people but the guys at the top are doing very well than you. From what I have been told.

  23. Dr Peter Williams | 6 Nov 2012 6:41 pm

    RDR level 4 exams have been a nice little earner for the CII and we all knew well in advance the exam requirement date was 31st December 2012 so why has this become a surprise to the CII? Why is this organisation having to lay off so many staff when they knew full well their income stream was going to be cut post RDR? Why didn’t they just offer temporary contracts and there wouldn’t have been any need for redundancies?
    How much is this going to cost the members?
    I would love to know what the top guys in the CII are earning especially as they are now making people redundant. Maybe, you’ll know the answer to this and care to post back? I won’t hold my breath.

  24. We have a lot of real time issues in the finance world. The CII and PFS provide a clear way for many in our vaired jobs and tasks and do a fantastic job.The reality of the world and the UK all professions are having to consider the right structures for the new order. I recently attended the PFS conference, professional, inspiring and educational. Good luck to all concerned

  25. This was inevitable after the CII’s licence to print money had expired in December.

  26. Perhaps this will be my last post on this, re “We have seen our revenues increase during this time but those revenues are reinvested back into meeting the needs of our members – they certainly aren’t distributed to the Directors”. Of course this will be the case… the CII has on many occasions made extremely large “surplus”, I have been led to believe their bonuses are taken based on reaching their targets and the size of the surplus – surplus being the equivalent of profit for a not-for-profit organisation.
    So CII, ask your members if they want the real directors salaries disclosed or not by a straight vote – not handled and lobbied via regional representatives.
    I have no problem with the CII, there are many excellent people that do fantastic work for them, free, it’s only the guys on the gravy train that I take issue with.

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